February 29, 2004
(Download the Word
transcript of this conference call)
Operator: Good day everyone, and welcome to today's Topical Conference
Call sponsored by the National Center for Cultural Competence
at Georgetown University, entitled, “Cultural Consideration
for Early and Continuous Screening”. As a reminder,
today's call is being recorded. At this time I will turn
the call over
to Wendy Jones.
Good afternoon, this is Wendy Jones from the National Center
for Cultural Competence. I'm pleased to welcome all of you
to the second in a series of topical conference calls. Today's
call,
as you have heard, is entitled Cultural Considerations for
Early and Continuous Screening. Here at the National Center
for Cultural
Competence, there a few colleagues with me. Suzanne Bronheim,
you have heard her voice already but I will let the other
two who are present introduce themselves.
I'm Isabella Lorenzo-Hubert. I'm a bilingual program and
family support specialist, Senior Policy Associate with
the National
Center for Cultural Competence.
Good afternoon, I'm Tony Fisher, Senior Policy Associate
with children and youth with special health care needs
here at the
National Center for Cultural Competence.
Wendy: Thank you. Also on the line we have our Federal
Project Officer, Diana Denboba.
Diana: Hello everyone, welcome.
Wendy: I'm sure there may be other people joining us in
terms of participants and other people here from the NCCC
but we
would really love to get started. Let's move into perspectives
from
the NCCC. Through a cooperative agreement with the Maternal
and Child Health Bureau, the NCCC is funded to carry out
its goals
which is to increase the capacity of health care and mental-health
services, plan, implement, and evaluate culturally competent
service delivery. The children and youth with special health
care needs project of the NCCC sponsor the topical conference
call series. The goal of this project is to incorporate
cultural and linguistic competence into the strategies,
to implement,
measure and monitor the six core outcomes for community-based
systems for children and youth with special health care
needs and their families. This is in keeping with the helping
people
2010 goals. And carrying out the president's new freedom
initiative.
A major goal of the children and youth with special health
needs project is to assist state Title V, children with
special health
care needs program and MCHB’s discretionary grant (unclear)
to fulfill the vision that MCHB has of equal access for all
to quality health care in a supportive, culturally competent
environment
which is family centered and community-based. And also in
which health disparities by racial, ethnic and economic status
will
be eliminated. And that MCH public health agencies will exemplify
the highest standards of excellence by employing a highly
qualified diverse workforce and providing a respectable and
supportive
work environment. With all of that said, let's stop for a
moment and talk about the call.
The call is structured such that Suzanne, Diana and myself
are the call moderators. We will alternate in asking the
speakers
questions. This process continues back and forth with each
of today's speakers. At a point in the call, we will ask
the operator
to open the line and the operator will assist us with the
question and answer period. This will continue until as
many questions
as possible are answered within the allotted time. The
call ends with completion of your evaluation form and closing
remarks from
the NCCC. I'm going to turn the call over to Suzanne at
this
moment and she can present Diana for perspectives.
Suzanne: Thank you, I'm very excited. We have a very large
number of you on the call today. Even more who are going
to access our
new callback feature. This is obviously a topic of great
interest and I can hardly wait till we get started. First
we would like
to hear from the Maternal Child Health Bureau, Diana Denboba.
Diana: Hello everyone, welcome. I am here at the central
office at the Maternal and Child Health Bureau. With Marie
Mann from
the genetic services branch, Aisha Jones, who is a scholar
here at the integrated services branch, and Dawn Levinson
with (unclear).
Wendy had mentioned a little bit about what our division
of services for children with special health care needs
in the Maternal and
Child Health Bureau does and is concerned with. We think,
along with our partners such as families, city-based organizations,
our state programs and others have come up with a model
of serving
children and youth with special health care needs that
is family centered, community-based, coordinated and is
set
in a city setting
where the services are easily accessible to families and
there is a financial structure available to pay for the
services.
One of the real essential components of a model of services
for children with special health care needs is that they
have access
to early and ongoing and continuous screening. This could
be newborn screening, newborn hearing screening, developmental
screening,
and it is just as important that following screening there
be some services or treatment, some kind of follow-up with
that.
We all know that families come from different perspectives
and backgrounds. We are trying to hear from people who
have expertise
and have lived it in terms of some of the ethnic cultural
considerations when we talk about early and continuous
screening.
Suzanne: Thank you. Was there anything else, Diana?
Diana: No.
Suzanne: Well, we will move on to meeting our speakers
for today. We are fortunate to have people with wonderful
experience
and
expertise. For our speakers, I will call on each of you
and ask you to just give a brief introduction of yourself
and
what you're
doing. Then we will start the call. We will start with
Ms. Yazzie.
Wanda: I'm calling in from Santa Fe, New Mexico. My name
is Wanda Yazzie and I am the nurse consultant for the newborn
screening
program for the State of New Mexico. I help manage and
coordinate all the newborn screening activities.
Suzanne: Thank you. Rabbi Ekstein?
Rabbi: I'm Rabbi Ekstein, director of the committee for
the prevention of Jewish genetic diseases, Dor Yeshorim,
in New
York.
Suzanne: Thank you. Isabella already introduced herself.
Isabella: Yes, I am here at the National Center for Cultural
Competence and part of one of the hats I wear is to provide
early (unclear) for children suspected of having developmental
disabilities
and delays. (remainder inaudible)
Suzanne: And Ms. Brown.
Desiree: I'm Desiree Brown with the District of Columbia
Part C program. I serve as the parent coordinator for the
program.
The primary focus is family support.
Suzanne: And Ms. Doksum?
Teresa: I'm Teresa Doksum and I'm with Abt Associates in
Cambridge, Massachusetts. I’m sitting here in Bethesda
with my project officer from (unclear), Penny Kyler, and
I am the national
evaluation contractor for the gene project. This is a community-based
education
outreach project and some of the other partners are in the
room here with me as well.
Suzanne: Thank you. As we said when we announced this call,
we wanted to talk about the cultural issues and considerations
because
the whole concept of screening is very culture bound. It
has a perspective that fits with some of our mainstream
culture around
finding things early, and fixing things and having control
over things. Those are important values that we hold within
the public-health
arena. But for many families and for people from diverse
cultures, they may have a different set of values or a
different perspective
on this. So what we're going to be talking about today
is some different approaches, and the ways to really take
into
account
those differences in culture as we go about meeting the
goal of early and continuous screening. For those of you
who have
been on our call before, you know we generally start with
a family and consumer perspective.
We will do that again today, Desiree Brown who is with
DC early intervention, is both a parent herself of a child
who
has been
through that screening process and also works with a number
of other parents. We will be asking her some questions
and she will
be sharing some of her perspectives and experience with
us. Diana, do you want to start?
Diana: Desiree, thank you for participating on the call.
As both a parent who has been through the early intervention
screening
experience and as a parent support coordinator for the
District of Columbia Part C program, we are interested
to hear a family
perspective on the process of screening. In your opinion,
what are some important considerations in approaching families
about
screening and screening results?
Desiree: First, coming from a twofold experience personally,
my major concern would've been understanding the family
dynamics. Our initial visit for our son for screening,
I did that alone.
It was automatically assumed that I did not have a husband
or that there were no other supports in place for the two
of us.
Not acknowledging my husband or extended family members
as well. So keeping that in mind, understanding that family
dynamics and
explaining the entire process no matter what the educational
background may have been, that needed to be acknowledged.
Diana: In thinking about this, have you come up with any
thoughts about how family is defined within culture for
each individual
family?
Desiree: I think understanding the family as they come
through the door, maybe doing a small assessment, would
be extremely
helpful. In my work, I have dealt with teen moms where
the grandmother is actually coordinating services for the
grandchild.
Or a single-parent,
or their children are in a foster care system, just understanding
that family can be extremely helpful. It can take only
a few moments just to find out who is living in the home
and
who is
caring for the child.
Diana: Thank you.
Wendy: Hi Desiree, this is Wendy. Sometimes families feel
offended by the screening process. What issues, if any,
have you encountered?
Desiree: Actually several. I have a family who comes from
a high economic background and she felt as though the system
was set
up just for low income families. That it was just a warehousing
of children with disabilities. Explaining the process more
thoroughly would've been very helpful. Another problem
that I have faced
recently was having a family who spoke another language
and the screening was not done in a manner that they even
understood.
Translation services were not even mentioned. It was assumed
that the dad understood English enough to translate that
information
to Mom. The family did not understand the process to even
complain that this was not appropriate. They just assumed
this was the
way it was done and they accepted it.
Suzanne: So Desiree, they just accepted the screening process,
whatever it meant or did not mean to them.
Desiree: Exactly.
Suzanne: What about the outcomes of screening? If they
don't understand why it is being done. What about when
they are
presented with outcomes and how can screeners or practitioners
help?
Desiree: Just understanding the family in and of itself.
Asking that crucial question, do you speak English? Would
you like to
have a translator available? Just to understand the document
in and of itself. Making that option available. Asking
throughout the explanations, do you understand? Make sure
you get their
feedback. Make sure they understand. I don't think an outcome
can even be developed without making sure that family understands
their role in the whole process.
Wendy: Desiree and Suzanne, I think you mentioned that
sometimes families are afraid to ask questions because
they see the
doctor or professionals as authority figures. How can people
address
that?
Desiree: That's a really big question. I think that is
where I come into play as well. Making sure there is someone
who
can, when a family comes into the system, understand what
their rights
are. Understand what their responsibilities are, as well
as those individuals who are caring for the children. Making
sure they
understand that process. A big role with regards to government,
they see the program I work with is a government-funded
program and they don't want a lot of questions to be asked
of them.
They don't want to ask a lot of questions because they
don't want
a Pandora's box to be opened.
Wendy: When you say Pandora's box, are you talking about
especially newly immigrated families?
Desiree: Yes exactly, or families who have been here with
illegal status. Making sure they understand that’s
not what we are here for. We are here to focus on another
purpose.
Diana: Are there any special issues, when you think about
dealing with families, are there any special concerns that
you see that
families might like to see in terms of screening program?
Desiree: Having someone there that they can identify with.
Whether that is a translator or someone they've spoken
to prior, having
that person on-site or available by telephone to assist
them with the process. The coaching process helps a lot
to make
sure they have a preview of the document that they will
be viewing.
So if they have additional questions, they can ask that
prior to the evaluation. Or even the results.
Diana: It looks as though, I know in a lot of instances
families to talk with, or have as a support there, other
families
that they feel understand them. And know the community
and speak the
same language and have the same cultural background.
Suzanne: Thank you for setting the tone. Obviously there's
a lot of issues that families bring to the table when we
bring
screening to them. We're going to talk today about screening
of three different sorts. We are going to start out with
Wanda Yazzie. One sort of screening is really a universal
screening.
Universal newborn screening is an example of this. This
is something where you walk in the door, you are born in
the
hospital, it
happens. And then there needs to be follow-up. We really
want to talk about some of those cultural issues and how
you address
those. Diana, do you want to start off?
Diana: Hi Wanda, welcome. Can you tell us a little bit
about your role and how you support families in relation
to universal
or genetic screening?
Wanda: Let me give you some background information. In
New Mexico, we screen for six disorders. They are PKU,
(unclear)
deficiency,
galactosemia, congenital adrenal hyperplasia, sickle cell
disease, thyroid problems. The way that we do it is you
have a goal of
doing a good job in terms of screening and testing all
babies that are born. But our role here, once the test
is done and
we have the test results, is to make sure that the baby
is identified
quickly, in a real quick manner. It has do with all your
principles of early detection and prompt intervention.
You correspond with
the physician to connect our rural practitioners to our
academic institutions to our clinical specialists at the
University
of New Mexico. We are the liaison at that point to make
sure that
things are done in a timely fashion and we are also the
checks and balances to make sure the family understands
the implications
of the disease, what's involved with treatment. What we
try to do is make it very simple for the families to understand.
And
to act as that liaison between all the healthcare delivery
systems. We work with a multicultural group from Hispanics
to a lot of
our Native Americans, we have many tribes here. We have
19
Pueblos, we have the Apaches, the Navajos. We work with
a large group
of people. Our role is to make sure that the baby has a
medical home, that the parents understand all implications.
We connect
the practitioners and the academic folks together to make
sure standards of care are being practiced.
Diana: That sounds really great and I hope most people
know that a medical home is an ongoing regular primary
care.
Wanda: That whole concept of medical home, you have to
realize that what we want to aspire to, in large portions
in our
state, is not a reality. Care is not coordinated. Services
are not accessible.
So that is where I come into play. To make sure the parents
have access to that expedite referral system. Be a helper
to the rural
care practitioner. To let them know what's available within
the public health system. So along with that we utilize
a lot of
the principles of health education and health promotion.
Different theories regarding that. How do you get the family
to understand,
what is their value system? If the parent knows what's
involved with keeping their baby healthy, once they understand
they
can take ownership for that. To seek care. And the quality
of life
will be improved if they do have a primary care provider.
Have a medical home and have proper treatment. Part of
our job in
that whole discipline is to educate the parent. Educate
them about how the body works and very simple terms like
the thyroid.
What needs to happen for the lifetime of the child. What
type of lab work needs to be done and why it is important
to keep
your well baby checks. So basically to make sure what's
available, and make sure they know that these healthcare
services are
available to them and how to access them.
Diana: Wanda, you said a little bit about it but what is
the demographic that you have in New Mexico? Could you
give a few
examples of how you tailor what you do to cultural and
linguistic needs?
Wanda: New Mexico, unfortunately, in terms of our Native
American health demographics, we have a growing population
of Native Americans.
It's hovering around 9 to 12% of our population. We have
one of the highest rates of SUID deaths and infant mortality
and
we have one of the lowest rates of prenatal care. In our
state, we have the lowest rate of prenatal care. You have
all these
coupled with the fact that we have low social economic
status. A family of four may only live off of $6,0000 or
$7,000 a
year. That is really tough. That means they will not have
money to
go to the clinic, they won't have money to go into Albuquerque,
traveling from a very rural location on the reservation
for healthcare. So those are the barriers that, nationwide
there
are about 560
federally recognized tribes. Here in the Southwest, we
have the largest concentration. There's only about 2.5
American
Indians
and Alaskan natives in the United States. The life expectancy
for Native Americans is about six years less than the US
population. So we only live to be about 70 to 76 years
of age. And our mortality
rates are really high. We have for instance, diabetes is
about 420% higher than the national average. Alcoholism
is 770% higher
than the national average. Tuberculosis is 750% higher
than the national average. So with that you can realize what the
barriers
are. And disparities in healthcare. Coupled with all that, the poverty level. We are about 32% below the national poverty
standards.
The unemployment rate is about 2.5% higher.
Diana: Given all that, how do you tailor what you do related
to newborn screening so that it can work for families from
diverse backgrounds?
Wanda: It's interesting on the flip side of the coin, many
of our tribes have health care provided by US public health
service,
Indian Health Service. I was just out at a small rural
clinic yesterday and was talking to one of the doctors
there and
I was telling him that there is a difference between IHS,
which is
a nonprofit organization, with other nonprofit organizations.
The difference is physicians with IHS are grounded in clinical
preventative services. They've heard the terms health promotion,
health education, preventative services, they know that
all those interventions need to happen way upstream in
order
to keep the
family healthy. I think our natives are well served, it's
just unfortunate, the ones that live in the urban towns
are less served
than those out in the rural environment. Then you also
have to access the problems with availability to services.
Suzanne: The concept of genetic screening might be unknown
or problematic in a culturally diverse state like New Mexico.
What
have been some of the concerns that you have run into that
families have had about newborn genetic screening?
Wanda: There is always in the history of Native Americans
nationwide, we've always been a very vulnerable population.
So we have
in the early days of research, we have had unethical research
practices
that were done out on the reservation with our native folk.
So people always remember that. People don't remember the
good times.
They always remember the bad times. So within your tribes,
there's always that whole Big Brother concept, government
intervention, the feds are coming. There's a lot of negative
connotations
with
that. With me, how I deal with that, I usually work through
the Indian health service practitioners in order to get,
say for
instance, a baby screened. They do have good a healthcare
system and I know where to access it. I think that is what
is nice
about my position is having that experience. You know what
you can
tap into in the community itself. What resources are available
and to get that family in for further screening. In terms
of genetic screening, if you're doing DNA analysis, it
needs to
be explained in simple terms. In the Navajo way, there's
a lot of words that cannot be translated from English to
Navajo.
You
need a really good translator in order to explain, say
for instance, cancer. You have to explain, there's no word
in
Navajo for cancer.
You have to explain what the cells do and how that grows.
And the implications of the complications. So in terms of
genetics,
it's actually an easier concept for them to realize, because
they realize that we came from the earth and we realize evolution.
In terms of genetic counseling, and the way the father and
the mother’s waters blend, it's a real easy concept
for Native Americans to grasp. The major obstacle is access
to
healthcare
and how bridge those.
Suzanne: You had mentioned when we spoke earlier that to
some extent, at least among the Navajo, there's almost
already a cultural
sense of issues related to genetics and how people meet
each other. Would you be willing to share that with folks?
Wanda: We were talking about that. Our conversation was
having a down syndrome baby, for instance, in the Navajo
way is
not considered negative. The Navajos believe, and a lot
of your
native people believe, that people come into your life
for a reason.
There's always a reason for everything. And that person
comes fully integrated into the family. They are given
specific
roles. It may be doing household duties, but that child
is always
integrated into the family. In terms of the way our introductions
are, in
the traditional way, you introduce yourself according to
your clan. The way that works is that you identify through
your
mother's side of the family first. So you are born to a
family on your
mother's side and your grandmother's side. And you are
born for your granddad and your granddad’s father on your dad's
side. In that way, when you are at any gathering, you announce
yourself. I would say my name is Wanda Yazzie, I was born for
Bitter Water on my mom's side. Anyway, you go through your four
clans, everyone can identify where you are in the whole clanal
structure. By that you know, if you're a woman seeking a husband,
you know other people, you know that you cannot marry certain
people. I guess that's what I’m trying to say. Based
on your clanal relations. You are always supposed to marry
four
clans away. So ancient peoples have always known that. You
can't intermarry, you need to marry a safe distance away
from your
relatives. This has always been something that ancient people
have always known through experience. That what works is
four clans away. So that's why a lot of your native people
consider
the number four sacred.
Suzanne: Diana, do you want to move on to your questions?
Diana: I know that your program has developed a number
of ways to reach out to diverse communities in New Mexico
and
helping
them understand newborn screening programs. And you have
worked at making these approaches culturally and linguistically
competent.
Can you tell me a little bit about how you have actually
done that? Some specifics.
Wanda: One of the first things is of course, it's interesting
when you talk to parents or grandparents. Let's say the
tribal elder or Native American. One of the best approaches
always
is to talk in the third person when you are explaining
something. So for instance, if you're talking about thyroid,
what I
usually
do is I use an example. This is what happened to this baby
when this baby was born. This was the treatment, this was
the different
blood drawn for testing, this is the pill the baby was
put on. So you always talk in the third person. There's
also,
in terms
of cultural competency, there's always cultural taboos.
Boy, do we have tons of them out here. You have to be aware
of
them and work around them and address things in the third
person.
In the form of a story always works well. Giving examples
in that way. In terms of the linguistics, a lot of people
speak
English and that's what's nice. But one of the things that
we developed in our program was a videotape on newborn
screening. Our target audience was expectant parents. The
way we went
about
it was to do a survey, focus groups over the state, we
surveyed 90 to 100 folks. Put all those concepts and integrated
them
into a video. One of the questions we asked them was, have
you ever
heard of the word genes? Not the kind you wear. The answers
we got, I thought these women were so smart. The way they
put it
in their own words. We integrated a lot of those concepts
into our video. The other thing we did was we had it in English,
and
in Spanish, and I had it translated into Navajo. We worked
at the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque and also the
Navajo
language department and we worked with Indian Health Service.
We bumped it off of them, off of their focus group participants.
I think two of them were elderly. The only thing they suggested was changing one word, that was once again talking more in
the third person. Instead of directly like saying, this is
going
to happen if you don't do this. The issue of shame. You don't
want to shame people, you want to educate to them. Scare
tactics do not work with our Native American folks.
Suzanne: Thank you so much. That's a wealth of information.
Now we want to talk about some of the different sort of
screening, we often do screening and genetic screening
of specific populations.
The sample we’re going to be talking about today is
screening for, it started out as Tay-Sachs but now it includes
some other
disorders, in the Orthodox Jewish community. There are specific
cultural issues. Rabbi Ekstein is our speaker on that. Rabbi,
I guess a lot of people on this call may wonder how a Rabbi
got in the business of genetic screening. Could you just
share with
us briefly your personal experiences that led to this?
Rabbi: Unfortunately, I have learned it the hard way. I
had my own four Tay-Sachs children which I had to care
for. For
several
years they suffered and they taught me a lot. I came to
the conclusion that something has to be done. So that others
should not have
to share the same experience. This is the worst university,
I’m
calling it the Hard Way University.
Suzanne: Thank you very much. We do know that there are
number of Tay-Sachs screening programs specifically for
Jewish communities.
They may screen people about to be married or about to
have children. There may be private testing and counseling.
What
are some religious
and cultural beliefs within the Orthodox Jewish community
that may make the typical approaches to genetic screening
problematic?
Rabbi: Because the set up in the community, we are already
medically oriented, health oriented. Everybody is taking
care of their
health very carefully. And also we have a lot of children,
we have big families. When a family has in the past, it's
changed a lot but in the past, when a family had that problem,
the
first
way was to cover it up. If this is going to be known by
my neighbor or by my cousin, this is going to go out. Then
my
healthy children
will not be able to marry. They will be afraid. The philosophy
for years and years, including myself, my father, they
just want to cover up. The process of denial, we call it.
Without
any logical
explanations, but that's what happened. Even to smart people.
We call it the ostrich politic. After the loss of the fourth
child, I said well this has to change. It was not easy.
I banged the doors, I was thrown out by the door I went
in,
so I banged
windows. I decided not to give up. It was very hard but
slowly picked up. Today, thank God, it is accepted. I can
say it’s
a success of 95% at least or more.
Wendy: That's wonderful. I think probably part of the stigma
issue that you talked about had to do with marrying within
the community.
Rabbi: Not only do they want to marry Jews, but they want
to marry from the same sect. Within the Jewish community,
there
are different sects. Coming from one side of Hungary or
coming from the other side of Hungary, the language they
have is
different. Jews come from all kinds of different places.
So they have different
customs, the clothes are different, the food is different,
how they talk is different. Usually everybody wants to
get married
in their own little community. Which makes definitely the
risk a lot higher. It almost is like a big family. One
community, one sect, could come from five or six main families.
And
70 or
80% of this is somehow related to this five or six families.
So this makes it even more difficult, the situation. But
now, by doing the tests, we can take care of specific diseases.
One
of my duties is to discourage (unclear) marriages, there
are still people who don't listen. There are still people
who will
do it. But we are trying to do everything possible to make
this as uncommon as possible. A lot of people are listening.
And not
doing it anymore.
Suzanne: You mentioned a little bit about how hard it was
for you in developing this program. What was some of the
resistance?
Rabbi: The hard part was to decide, well I'm going out
with my problem out there. That was the most difficult
area. Once
I started
saying yes, I lost children to Tay-Sachs, I want you to
know that you have the same risk as I have. Don't think
because
it did not happen to you, that it cannot happen. It can
happen to
anybody. Then people started to help. Still today I have
doctors in Europe who try to resist, who say this disease
does not happen.
I never saw this disease. While he didn't see it, but there
are a lot more doctors than disease. So he did not have
the chance
to see it, but unfortunately it is common. Naturally there
is some politics and some interests which could stand in
the way.
To deal with people is always difficult. I don't think
the other speakers have red carpets. They probably have
to work
very hard
to overcome all the different problems on the way. But
today I can say we almost are done with the resistance.
People
understand this is something that has to be done and it
almost became an
adopted culture.
Wendy: Thank you, this is Wendy. I wanted to ask you a
question. You have developed what I understand is a very
successful
approach to genetic screening that works for Orthodox Jewish
community
not only in New York but world wide. Can you please describe
it for me? How does it work? Who gets tested? Those type
of things.
Rabbi: Usually what we try to do is everyone should be
tested, man and woman, in the 12th grade in high school.
That is
our goal. In order to take away the part of emotional.
You are not
testing someone when you're ready to get married. You are
doing it way before, when you don't have any emotional
attachment. So people will do it easier at that time. We
concentrate
a lot
in the schools, in the seminaries. Usually we go in the
school and make a date, the school sends out letters to
the parents
and they sign a consent for the children. And on a certain
specific day, we come down with the team of specialized
phlebotomists. We have a system to make sure no mistakes
are happening.
We have
kits for every individual and they are labeled so there
are no mixups. We give everybody a test. For the test,
they have
to
fill out the card. They have to put in their birthdate,
their gender, their telephone number and their origin.
Are they
from Russia, Poland, etc. Or Jews who come from Asia or
some converts,
this information is very important. It's not the same test
for a Slavic Jew as for an Ashkenazi Jew. There's a lot
more to do
if you are Ashkenazi. So we make sure that we ask them
all these questions and they sign a consent form. And that
is
the first
part they have to do. When they reach the age and they
want to go out looking for a partner, for a mate, then
they have
to exchange
the numbers. The boy and the girl exchange the coded numbers
and both of them are calling the Dor Yeshorim hotline and
they give the two numbers, the birthdates, and the operator
from Dor
Yeshorim will get back to them giving them the results. Telling
them it's compatible or not compatible. Most of the calls
are compatible. It's very easy. The problem comes when we
have to
say not compatible. Then we have to spend a lot of time in
counseling them. Explaining to them exactly the risks and
what they're all
about. And make sure they understand what is available for
them. What are the options they have. That is more or less
how the
program works. Then we have another part which is also a
major part but we don't talk too much about it. But automatically
it
is done. In the community, we are well known that we're dealing
with genetic problems, so anybody who has a problem, the
first thing he's going to call is Dor Yeshorim. Well, the
doctor told
me that, and they ask for advice. One person has a problem
with a specific disease, we have the expert for the special
disease.
As you probably know, genetics, there are different diseases
and experts for every different disease. So one of the most
important things is to find the right doctor who is good for the specific
problem. So we make sure that we recommend them to the appropriate
service he needs. Meanwhile at the same time, we get contact
with the family. They call us very often for some help and
information and to make sure that the healthy children are
not having a reoccurrence
of this same disease. So we have a feeling that we know what
are the steps for the diseases that you need to ask. You
need to add a new test. We say, what is going on. When we
see a disease
which is more common in the community like, let's say familial
dysautonomia, we put in effort and got a researcher to research
that. We were a part of identifying this gene. We work together
with Fordham University on that. We work together on having
some different over-the-counter medications which could help
them.
And they were very successful. It's not a cure. But it helps
them a lot to deal with the problem. So constantly we are
involved in the discoveries of the different genes, etc.
So today we have
a list from nine to ten diseases that we are already testing
everybody. And if there is a family who has a specific disease
which is not one of those, then we try to make it for the
specific family that they should not have the reoccurrence
factor.
Diana: Thank you so much. Isabella?
Suzanne: Diana, before we go on, I want to make a little
segue if you don't mind. I think what's exceptional about
Rabbi Ekstein's
program is the fact that it is growing from the community.
With the community designing it, they were able to design
something
that was culturally competent. It dealt with the fact that
within their community birth control and abortion are not
options related
to genetic disorders. So that by moving the screening back
to the point where it's before you were at those points
and by making
it anonymous because of the issue of stigma. Having the
community that intimately involved in the process and designing
it
was a way to make sure it really worked for them. Now we're
going
to switch over to a third type of screening which is developmental
screening for the community. Now, Diana.
Diana: Thank you, we really appreciate having you with
us, Rabbi. Isabella, the idea of screening for developmental
disorders can
be very culture bound. Some cultures value independence
above
any other qualities and believe that gaining milestones
that support independence are critical. Can you contrast
that
with the Hispanic culture?
Isabella: As you mentioned, in many Western societies there
is an emphasis on people being independent, self-reliant
and self
assertive. Focus on individual achievement. In contrast,
in Latino Hispanic cultures, interdependence and cooperation
are
widely
held values. So families look more for politeness, obedience,
friendliness, how to get along with others. This is important
to understand. Which of the culture values are translated
into parents’ expectations for their children when
we do activities with the families such as screening. Or
providing services.
I also wanted to add that for Hispanic Latino families, a
view of intelligence does not rely so heavily on the cognitive
skills
such as expression and creativity, but incorporates them
by other
attributes of social skills, as I mentioned before. That's
important when we come with our screening instruments. Those
are the times
we are heavy on cognitive skills as well as verbal skills.
It's important that we do acknowledge and recognize the critical
role
of the family. And the cultural linguistic background. We
have in mind what are those desirables. The language and
the communication
as well as the child rearing practices, and how the family
is defined. And their beliefs about their wellness and how
they
perceive the disability. The way they perceive is similar
to what Wanda has mentioned in terms of the Navajo. Thinking
of
it as a very special thing. It's either something that has
been given by God or if not, something that was a punishment
but still
is something special for the family. So when we bring the
word disability, sometimes it is more than just explaining
the disability
but understanding where that family comes from and what is
their perspective. Working with the Hispanic Latino families,
another
aspect that is important is how to look at the education,
the socioeconomic status, a lot of times we see families
without
looking at those important components. In terms of how we
provide information as well as services to them. A lot of
times we
think that given information, written information and translating
that
information is enough. We forget about the level of literacy
or even the words that we use. I have encountered that with
words such as stimulation or intervention, or even screening.
The words
are very unknown for them. So I need to really step back
and do a lot of explaining of what I am talking about. Also
important
aspects when we work with families is to understand the many
stresses that the family comes with to the United States.
A lot of them are escaping from war in their country or are
looking
for jobs and are coming here to new systems, new language,
new
rules. Most of them encounter documentation. Those are very
important elements to have when we work with the family.
So as Desiree
also mentioned, when we come also with project studies funded
by government agencies, just the word government is something
that people not do not like to hear. From their past experience
usually. It's not something that has been supportive to them.
So naturally they are not going to be very open about working
with you. Also for my work, part of my work I do, as an outreach to the community I provide developmental screening in transitional
shelters for Hispanic Latino families. That is another layer
in terms of coming to families that have that level of stress.
And adding to that, am I a good parent? Am I doing a good
job?
Suzanne: Thank you, Isabella. How do you approach screening
so that it is more appropriate for families based on their
beliefs?
Isabella: The entire process of screening needs to be individualized
to each child and family. Needs to be relevant and appropriate.
So I just don't go with my screening tools, but I try to
have in mind every time when I work with the family, all
the aspects
that I mentioned before. So of course I have a tool that
I need to have as a reference, as a guide. But I do a lot
of observation
and I do try to set a relationship with the family. A relationship
of trust. That is kind of the window for me, or the door
that will open for me to be able to work with the family.
Latinos
like to talk first and get acquainted. We like to feel
that we have someone that can understand us. So I like
to establish
that
relationship with the family and to listen from their perspective.
Listen to what is happening to them. What are their goals?
What are their child rearing perspectives? Usually they
are different
from Western culture. So I try to use many pieces of the
puzzle and not just bring my screening tool.
Wendy: In terms of your screening tools, tell me how you
adjust for cultural norm?
Isabella: As I mentioned before, when I ask families about
what are the expectations, what are the milestones that
they see in
their children, many times for example, the child may be
one-year-old and maybe is not trying to walk or on the
verge of walking. I
observe, and I ask as well, that maybe the child did not
have that experience of being on the floor or trying to
reach to the
furniture or things to stand up. It is probably a lack
of opportunity that the family has given them. Maybe culturally,
you don't put
your child on the floor. Because you don't want your child
to be dirty. At a certain age, the child is feeding himself.
Well,
we like to feed our children because we don't want to see
the mess. Because it is part of being motherly. In those
aspects
I try to adjust with my screening tool in terms of looking
at what are those differences developmentally, and culturally,
for
the child.
Wendy: How about when you interact with families and there
is more than just mom and dad and the child? How about
when there
is extended family members?
Isabella: We definitely have to, we are a collective culture,
we like to have family around. And it's usually not just
one person that makes the decision or takes all the information.
So I try to be in touch with the mom to give the information,
share that information not only with her but also with
the other
family members. Of course you have to ask many times. You
can do some investigation when you ask the questions. You
can ask
without even having direct questions. In terms of who feeds
the baby, who takes care during the day. You can find out
if there's
a grandmother or an aunt. Or a sibling that is taking care
of the child. So you know those other members are going
to be incorporated
in your screening or in your activities.
Wendy: How about when you are with the child, say the child
you mentioned before, whose mom or caregivers are used
to feeding
the child. And possibly, according to Western standards,
at the time a child should be feeding itself. What do you
do in that
circumstance? How do you adjust for that?
Isabella: When I go and do a screening and provide information
to families, I also bring a developmental screening wheel
that is translated into Spanish. What I do is show the
family or the
mother about what is expected within that age range. We
read it together, we look at it together. So the family
has an
understanding when we talk about what are we looking for.
In a very indirect
way. I don't want to tell families that this is what the
children should be doing. But in a way of getting close
and looking at
what the child is presently doing, what the family would
like for the child to do. And how we can, together, reach
that point.
But it's always a sharing of information and listening
to the families for what they really want for their child.
In
terms
of verbal expression, we look at that, we say talk to your
baby, talk to your children. It's a correlation between
how much you
talk to your child and the outcome of their verbal abilities.
But instead of saying, this is what you should do, it's
maybe to observe and see if there are opportunities that
you can
infuse that while you observe child and mother interaction.
That is
another way of working together.
Suzanne: Thank you. A wonderful set of speakers. We're
going to hear from one more person in a second. It relates
to the
resources. Again, maybe you have been on our calls before
and know that
we usually try to provide you with a set of resources or
references that might enrich the call and expand your knowledge.
You have
hopefully all received those. One of those was a report
hot off the presses. I'm going to ask Teresa Doksum, who
is the
lead
author on that, to tell you a little bit about that report
and how it came about and thought it might be helpful to
you.
Teresa: Hi, this is Teresa. As I said earlier, we are the
national evaluation contractor for the genetics education
needs assessment
project, which is a five-year cooperative agreement between
(unclear) and the March of Dimes. Penny Kyler is the project
officer and
she said I could speak for her. And also in my hotel room
here are two of the national partners in this project.
Roxanne Brown
and Susan (unclear) who are from the genetic alliance.
They are the experts on this project. So the background
for the
literature
reviews that we did is that this project began a couple
of years ago. One of the first things you do is find out
what
has already
been done. The purpose of the project is to use community-based
strategies to create educational and outreach materials
and genetics for underserved communities. To help people
make
more informed
choices about their health. And to ensure that these resources
are culturally and linguistically appropriate. So what
is unique about this project is that it is a partnership
between
national
consumer advocacy organizations and two communities. One
of which is in Washington Heights, New York, the other
is in Lansing Michigan.
The New York project is focusing on Latinos and Michigan
is focusing on African-Americans. Which is why our literature
review is only focused on those two populations. But we are working on
a publishable manuscript that will include literature on
Asian-Americans
and
Pacific Islanders. There was also a fair amount of literature
on that. We're basically doing the background research for
the project and produced this report to help those communities.
As
well as the national partners as they move forward in the
project. What they're doing is they are developing local
coalitions that
also involve the national partners and they are going to
be doing needs assessment in their specific communities.
They will be
developing educational strategies once they analyze the results
of the needs assessment. They will implement and evaluate
these strategies. Another unique component of this project,
and is
very important for (unclear), is that the lessons learned
from these projects are widely disseminated and replicated
in other
communities within other organizations. I did this literature
and you can read this on your own and it echoes a lot of
the same themes that have been brought up by those who are
actually
trying to do education and outreach in genetics. I want to
point out some of the limitations and make a plug for you
guys to get
your work out there in the published literature. There was
not a whole lot out there. This was a ton of work done on
how different
communities view genetic research. There's a lot less out
there on formal evaluations of educational strategies or
outreach strategies.
There was a fair bit on one-on-one counseling and how to
make that more culturally competent. There's a wonderful
book by Fisher
which had a different chapter on different ethnic groups
and discussed the beliefs and the values that need to be
taken into
consideration by practitioners and clinicians. I want to
point you to that resource. If you're interested in culturally
competent,
one-on-one counseling strategies.
Diana: Do you have a title for that?
Teresa: Hang on a second, it's called Cultural and Ethnic
Diversity: A Guide for Genetics Professionals. It's edited
by Fisher, N
L are the initials. Published by the Johns Hopkins University
press 1996.
Suzanne: Thank you. Now for the operator, I think we are
ready to open it up for questions. Is the operator there?
Operator: The question and answer session will be held
electronically today. You can signal by pressing the star
key followed by
the digit 1 on your touchtone telephone. A voice prompt
on your phone
line will indicate when your line is open to ask questions.
Please state your name before posing your question. That
is star 1 one
to ask a question.
We will take our first question.
Questioner: I'm from Tallahassee Florida, I'm both a professional
and a parent. I'm challenged, having seen these scenarios
from both perspectives, the best way to ask people how
to address
their cultural or other beliefs and ways to work with them.
Some people you can ask out right and others you can't.
I think getting
started is sometimes a bigger challenge than what happens
after that.
Suzanne: So you're asking for suggestions on how to get
conversation going?
Questioner: Yes.
Isabella: As I mentioned before, I usually try to set a
tone of trust and conversation. In general, just asking
about
the child rearing practices, how do they do things, I gear
my questions
in general to the family. To have a sense of the values
of the family. From there, I get some information and hopefully
with
my conversation. Not all the time. I am Hispanic and Latino
and I speak Spanish. But that does not make me an expert.
Not everybody
likes me or opens their doors to my conversation. It's
always
a chance, an opportunity for families to feel their trust.
Suzanne: Wanda or Rabbi Ekstein, do you have any thoughts
on talking to different families?
Wanda: That's a hard thing to do and I do a lot of my correspondence
over the phone. You can kind of tell by their greeting.
If the greeting is in Navajo, then you know you're in trouble.
Or if
it's in one of the Pueblo languages. When you're talking
to the mother, you can glean from them but just broad,
general
questions.
How are you feeling about this? Can you tell me a little
bit about yourself? Just to get a feel. What physician
are you taking
the baby to? Where are you getting the well baby care?
From that you can glean a lot. A lot of what we do, it's
interesting
that
Indian Health Service has a whole new initiative regarding
integrating a lot of traditional native medicine into the
biomedical model.
So I think from those two health systems blending together,
there's a lot to learn. One of the first things, I was
asked to give
a little conference with our local public health officers
who were having problems building relationships and rapport
with
our Native American clients. One of the things that we
used to tell our practitioners, it takes time. It takes
time to
build
trust. People can sense when you're in a hurry. So with
that, Native Americans will interpret it as a negative
experience.
A negative healthcare experience if the practitioner is
rushing and looks hurried. A lot of that interprets into
the culture
as a negative experience. This man or woman is causing
me to have these problems. There's a lot of that number one
taboo.
Takes a long time to build trust. There are certain things
you can do, in a Navajo way, you shake hands real lightly.
You make
eye contact very brief and then you look away. They believe
if you stare them in the eye, you're looking into their soul.
So
there are certain things you learn along the way. One of
the things is knowing your culture group. You have to do a quick
assessment to see how compliant they are with their culture
group. You could have a young Native American come into the
clinic that
does not believe in traditional medicine. And that is fine
too. Building trust and rapport with the family. The entire
extended
family. Going to the clinics is real family adventure. Especially
here in New Mexico. Everybody goes to the clinic on the same
day. Because of the social economic status, people are poor,
you try to carpool into the rural mountainous areas and into
the city for their healthcare.
Suzanne: The take away message is that some of it is coming
from a sense of understanding Western culture approach,
which is let's
get right into it, let's ask a lot of questions. That is
not what is going to work for many backgrounds. It really
is more
this conversational, giving it time.
Wanda: With a lot of the native tribes, asking a lot of
questions is prying. So you can go around tangentially
with your good
interview skills. Open-ended questions.
Suzanne: Do we have another question?
Questioner: This is Dawn Levinson from (unclear). I have
a question. I am wondering how critical you feel it is
for a successful outcome
to have a provider or counselor of the same cultural, racial
or ethnic background as the client?
Suzanne: Who would like to take that?
Wanda: I'll take a stab at that. There's good and there's
bad in terms of being the bearer of bad news. We see this
a lot when
I used to work for Indian Health Service, clinicians being
from the community and being the bearer of bad news. Everytime
that
client comes back, they always associate that as a negative
consequence. Let's say it was a bad pregnancy or a bad
outcome. You see that
a lot. What I have seen is that with our native practitioners,
lots of times they will go work in another Native American
community but not necessarily their own. I'll give you
an example. I was
just down in Santo Domingo, went yesterday and there was
a Navajo practitioner practicing with the Pueblo. It's
tough psychologically
and socially on native practitioners to practice in their
own communities. You get a high rate of burnout and it's
hard to
retain them. This might have implications for mainstream
America.
Rabbi: Number one, there's no one straight answer question
for both questions asked before. As the previous speaker,
I have
difficulty remembering names, just mentioned, there are
some things which are very uncomfortable to say, bad news.
There
are other types of counseling when you need to explain
the problem
to a person and if you don't understand the background
of the person, then you don't know how to talk to them.
So it's
very
important, before you counsel somebody, you should know
his background, his cultural beliefs, and so on. The community
and every family
is different. You cannot make a straight, this is how you
do it and here is the exact recipe to talk to them. Even
in the
Western community, I understand there are different people
and different attitudes and you have to know and be smart
enough
when you see someone to learn how to talk to them. You
start
slowly and use common sense and find out what you have
to do.
Suzanne: Do we have time for one more? Is there another
question?
Operator: There are no further questions.
Suzanne: Wendy, I’ll turn it back to you.
Wendy: Thanks, Suzanne. We wanted to thank everyone for
there participation. Speakers, federal guests, and participants
from a range of states. If I name the states it could take
up the
rest of our time. But just quickly, North Dakota, Maryland,
Missouri Utah, Maine, Nebraska, Washington State and DC,
California, Illinois,
Tennessee, Iowa, New York, New Jersey, Ohio, Rhode Island,
Louisiana, Vermont, Kentucky, Missouri, Texas, Hawaii and
India. We are
so pleased for all the numbers of people who registered
for
the call, 120, with almost an equal number for the replay.
We are
glad to be able to offer that option, as well as the transcript,
which will be posted on the web site. So we will thank
Viable Technologies for also being on the line and doing
such a
great job of transcription. I would like to speak briefly
about the
evaluation forms. You will notice the evaluation form,
which came as an attachment, has a separate fax number.
It's not
the National Center for Cultural Competence. It is Public
Research
and Evaluation Service or PRES. PRES is helping us with
evaluation of all NCCC project activities. So if you would
please complete
the evaluation form and fax it back to Dr. Harrison at
313-535-8460, we would appreciate it. We will take the
information and
feedback that you give us and use it to improve the remaining two topical
conference calls. Diana, do you have a closing remark?
Diana: I would like to thank all of our speakers, all of
our participants and the NCCC and in closing, just to let
you know
that Iowa is involved in something with trying to work
with the Mexican government. In terms of the healthcare
that has
been
provided before people immigrated to Iowa. There is a national
program which is trying to get immunization records from
Mexico into the United States. I would also like to give
a special thank
you to Penny Kyler for helping us identify speakers for
the call.
Suzanne: Thank you all and thank you from all of us who
are speakers. And for all that you are doing. I will say
good
afternoon to
all of you and goodbye.